Neutrino Soup Makes a Thin Gruel

Black Holes are Boring

Image of myself, deep in thought

Greetings, everyone.

I haven’t really prepared anything for today, so I’m going to ramble on for a while about some things that I think about while I’m either waiting for dinner, or waiting for the dean to run out of wind. Gadfry, but that man can talk.

I find that I’m bored with black holes (the astronomical kind, funny man). You hear the same things about them, over and over, and very rarely does anyone come up with something really new. There’s a good reason for it, of course. You can’t see into one (duh), and theorists can’t really calculate anything about them past the event horizon, because there is a big, fat, infinity sitting at the center: the singularity. Most theorists hate infinities. String theorists say their math works fine in a singularity. “Oh yeah, my theory works perfectly, except for this one thing, here. Oh, and no one has been able to actually verify the main bit here, but someone will surely try. Other than that, though, it works perfectly.” These guys are all full of beans.

 

Sigh, boring.

Ah, I just remembered a topic related to black holes that I haven’t gotten bored with, which is Gamma Ray Bursts, or GRBs. They’re very interesting phenomena, but I don’t have any prepared notes to talk about them just now. However, I did stumble across a nifty NASA video the other day, I forget exactly where, that talks about what causes GRBs. It’s pretty short, so I stuck it in:

Colliding Neutron Stars

My, wasn’t that interesting? I have wondered about exactly what would happen if a pair of neutron stars collided, other than a big kaboom and so on, but I never pursued the subject, lest I be accused of actually working. And here is NASA/Goddard doing a nice simulation of that very thing, for free. Such nice people there.

Damn. I have a hole in my sock and my big toe is sticking out of it. Why doesn’t this ever happen when I’m home?

A while back, I read an article in a Scientific American about a strange astronomical beast known as a naked singularity. A naked singularity is basically a black hole without an event horizon. How could something like that possibly exist? It sounds like pure codswallop to me. The author of the article (I can’t remember his name, consider finding it self-study) is some hot-shot mathematician dabbling around in astrophysics, and he says that they can exist and he has numbers that prove it. Supposedly, they form when a type II supernova occurs and the star doesn’t collapse onto the core symmetrically (how symmetrically? I couldn’t tell) which results in a sort of lopsided supernova explosion where naked singularities can form. Well then, that will be easy to test, eh? Hmph. I rather doubt that most any star you look at that is collapsing into a type II supernova will collapse symmetrically, so there should be naked singularities everywhere you look. You shouldn’t be able to swing a cat without hitting one.  I am dubious.

Hmmm, that does, however, give me an idea for a lovely little proposal that I could insert into the budget. Oh my, yes. Do you think CERN would be annoyed if I asked them to let me use their brand new, shiny, just-got-it-working Large Hadron Collider as a storage ring to inject particles into my even-more gigantic collider in order to create naked singularities? Ho ho ho. I might have to pursue that. I haven’t caused a commotion in a budget meeting in, oh, months, so I’m well overdue.

You know, I feel like watching some cartoons. Yes, I think I’ll go see if the fansub of this week’s Nichijou has shown up on IRC yet. I have to keep up on my anime, you know.

That’s all for today. Talk among yourselves if you like. Remember, no biting.

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55 comments to Black Holes are Boring

  • Naked singularity sounds like my love life before I met my wife.

    • The Professor

      Thanks for the comment. It's nice to know that at least one person read the article. Sigh.

      • No, at least two. I just got back from my vacation. I saw bison! Very nearby bison. Adult bison are large.

        Also, shrewd geologist that I am, it only took me about a day and a half after examining the extensive exposures of weathered rhyolite along the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone to realize "Oh, right, yellow_stone!"

        • The Professor

          Ah, you're back, how nice. I hope that you had a good time?
          I've never been close to a bison, but I have seen pictures of adult bison standing next to minivans, and yes, they do seem rather large. One can understand why Amerinds and pioneers to the Great Plains feared buffalo stampedes so much. There's a lot of meat in motion and not much brain steering it.
          What wonderful things did you learn, other than the reason for the name "Yellowstone"?

          • Oh, all sorts of stuff. For example, if, towards the end of an already long day, one should decide it's a good idea to drive north on Highway 55 out of Boise at midnight in order to stop at the next town for the night, then one will discover there's not much by way of public accommodation until reaching Cascade about two hours later. I imagine it's a pretty drive during daylight hours, though.

          • OA5599

            In West Texas I once decided to drive, late at night, 30 miles to the next dot on the map for accommodations. When I arrived, I found that it really was little more than that dot–just a feed store and a railroad crossing. I had to go another 30 miles to get to a dump of a motel.

            As tired as I was by that point, I fell right asleep, despite the faults in the accommodations.

        • P161911

          Got to experience bison up close on a snowmobile tour of Yellowstone a few years ago. I would have really preferred something more substantial between me and them.

          Also, when driving into the park at about 2am I learned that elk are HUGE, especially when compared to a Subaru rental car.

          • Deartháir

            There are buffalo/bison all over Alberta, including ranches where people raise the damn things. They are… QUITE… large.

            And tasty! Bison/buffalo are delicious when slow-roasted, although they're leaner than cattle, so don't have as much natural flavour. They do absorb the taste of a nice marinade VERY well, however.

          • P161911

            When I get an urge for buffalo I head down the street to Ted's. http://www.tedsmontanagrill.com/
            Ted Turner bought up half of Montana and decided he needed to do something with all the extra buffalo.

        • pj134

          Well…

          Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

          Also, my understanding of rocks goes about as deep as "Ohhh heavy!" or "Ohhh Shiny!" or "Ohhh, light?" so any sulfurous epiphanies of the like are very much welcome.

      • mr. mzs zsm msz esq

        I read it too, but took a while to get to. You should try to get some grant money to figure-out why the class of holes in socks where the big toe goes through never happen at home.

        • domino_vitali

          my theory is that the washing and drying process weakens the fibers enough to rip after a bit of wear with shoes, but not while putting them on at home. i have some math to back up my theory, and a snappy powerpoint presentation. can i have some money now please?

        • The Professor

          Sorry for whingeing. I'm trying something a bit different, and I don't have a lot of confidence in my writing ability as yet. When I don't see any comments after an hour I think everybody hates it. I'll get the hang of this yet.
          You jest, of course, but I could probably procure funding for such a proposal, because it sounds cheap. That's the magic word for getting the bastards to part with 'their' money. Argh, I'm going to need to go shout and stomp, I think.
          As for the holes, I suspect that the primary cause is the general bloody-mindedness of the universe.

          • mr. mzs zsm msz esq

            A professor at the university I graduated from got money to study coffee stains in a similar manner I think. It actually led to some interesting research even if the Alumni magazine is to be believed.

          • "…the general bloody-mindedness of the universe."

            The lab in which I did my dissertation work had some sample-prep equipment from a local company called Hylozoic Products, named after the belief that even seemingly inert objects are alive and, more to the point, are out to get us.

            We were of the opinion that the proprietor was a starry-eyed optimist.

          • SSurfer321

            I try to read everything posted up here. But some stuff is just beyond my comprehension attention span. Black holes, string theory and the like are more Mrs. Ssurfer321's thing than mine. If I can't make an intelligent or funny comment or add to the post in any productive way, I don't.

            <img src="http://www.ihasafunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/funny-pictures-i-have-no-idea-what-youre-talking-about-ihas-a-funny.jpg&quot;, width=300>

          • domino_vitali

            "If I can't make an intelligent or funny comment or add to the post in any productive way, I don't. "

            luckily i am not inhibited in that way.

          • The Professor

            That's fine, young man, we appreciate the effort.

          • domino_vitali

            (ok everyone, i'm whispering so the Professor doesn't hear me. he thinks i'm a young man, so play along until i break through the glass ceiling. thanks!)

          • Deartháir

            DON'T LOOK UP.

            You'll be able to see up his lab-coat, and the professor doesn't wear pants.

          • The Professor

            That's a damned (checks under coat) Lie!

          • The Professor

            Oops, I beg your pardon. Er, my glasses were very dirty?

          • domino_vitali

            DAMN!

          • Deartháir

            And god bless you for it.

          • The Professor

            No,no, what you are saying is a good comment. I'm trying to write short articles about some rather esoteric things that are accessible to everyone who comes here, while adding my own, er, unique(?) viewpoint. If you aren't understanding what I'm writing about, then I'm screwing up and I need to work harder (yuck). I won't know if I'm blowing it unless you guys tell me. This is supposed to be fun for everybody.

  • Deartháir

    I've read a lot of those types of theories over the years. You know the ones, "If only (X), then (Y) would be possible!"

    Basically, what they're saying is, "If only a cat were a dog, it could say 'woof!'". There are quite a few unique thought experiments out there, but over the decades, all too many have been proven impossible.

    The counter-argument, of course, is that "the universe is vast enough, with enough variables built in, that nothing is impossible". No, impossible does exist. As Eddie Izzard says, "you eating the Himalayas is impossible. Try it, and come back to me, and tell me it's not impossible. Impossible does exist." Damn kids these days, hiding behind the "infinite variables" escape clause.

    • The Professor

      Yeah. I had a section in the post where I was bitching about the people trying to describe the universe in mathematics, and because they can't, there is probably something amiss with our mathematics, or some of the things we're looking at aren't what we think they are, or there's another option we haven't thought of yet. I cut it because of length (I talk too much) and because I can't get the concept across properly.
      But yeah, impossible is out there, but describing it can be tough.

      • domino_vitali

        numbers and math are human inventions for our puny minds to attempt to explain our universe. don't forget, it wasn't too long ago that the human mind couldn't grasp the concept of the number zero. until we start thinking in vectors or something, we're not going to be able to understand the exact nature of anything on a large scale.

        “Oh yeah, my theory works perfectly, except for this one thing, here. Oh, and no one has been able to actually verify the main bit here, but someone will surely try. Other than that, though, it works perfectly.”

        this doesn't only apply to string theorists. i have learned of similar flaws in biochemistry, botany, and especially conventional quantum mechanics.

        • The Professor

          Well said. I too, think that we need to change the way we think about the universe. We'll probably have to wait for some new towering intellect to come along to teach us. Damn it.

          • craigsu

            Something tells me that Benoit Mandelbrot's response would be something along the lines of, "Um, fractals anyone?".

          • The Professor

            Actually, fractals are part of the question. Why do we see fractals everywhere we look? Why do we see strange attractors in chaotic systems? Any mathematics that will accurately describe our universe will describe those too at some level. It always makes my head hurt when I think about it too much. I just don't have the mental wattage.

          • craigsu

            Good point.  It does seem that, more often than not, answers to questions simply lead to more questions that need answers.  I guess that's the nature of the scientific method though, isn't it?

          • The Professor

            A good portion of the time, that's true. As an outside observer, many times it reminds me of a group of men removing a woodpile, expecting to find a termite nest underneath. Once under the woodpile, they find the termite nest all right, but also 3 other termite nests, 5 ant nests, a snake, and another woodpile. It's great fun watching scientists work. Other departments will sometimes hold lotteries.

    • tonyola

      Nothing is impossible, but there are lots of things that are extremely improbable.

      • The Professor

        I came across a term for splitting a hair four way when reading "Foucault's Pendulum" years ago, but I can't remember it now, and I no longer have the book, else I'd use it here.

        • tonyola

          One thing pounded into my head in engineering school was that there was no such thing as a certainty.

          • The Professor

            That's a good thing for an engineer. I appreciate it when the people who make the things I use (like buildings, bridges, cars, etc.) really think about what could go wrong and act accordingly.

          • Deartháir

            That's a very absolutist statement to make on this matter…

          • The Professor

            Well, excuse the hell out of me. It's not like I think it's actually true.

          • Deartháir

            Did I reply to you on that one? I can't tell from the way they line up. If I did, that totally kills the joke. I was responding to tonyola's comment which makes an absolute statement that there are no absolutes.

          • The Professor

            Yeah, you blew it on the reply. I was wondering why you were picking on a poor, defenseless, old man.

          • tonyola

            I never tell the truth.

  • domino_vitali

    i remember seeing an interesting documentary a few years ago on supermassive black holes. i would explain further, but right now when i try to access that part of my brain, all i get is "vrooom vroooom!"

    P.S. if you get into CERN, please bring me as an assistant.

    • The Professor

      Ah, that's just the motorhead part of your brain getting in the way. We all have that problem here.

    • mr. mzs zsm msz esq

      Are you a citizen of a EU member state? If not you'll pretty much need to be employed by an affiliated institution instead of CERN itself. You will have a much easier time of working for the Swedish (oops European) Spallation Source, they are hiring from all over the world at the moment.

      • The Professor

        No, the EU still has specific legislation in place, barring me personally from citizenship, in perpetuity. They are a very stiff-necked lot over there, I've found.
        A spallation source, eh? That could work. If there is one subject I am very knowledgeable about, it is hitting things so hard that bits of it fly off in all directions. Not much call for it lately, though.

      • domino_vitali

        unfortunately i am not. i only made it into the lobby of the MSU cyclotron, to do a poster presentation of my undergraduate research. if they didn't let me in there with radiation safety training under my belt, i'm not getting into CERN either. ;)

        • mr. mzs zsm msz esq

          That's a shame, if it was more than a couple of years ago you would have certainly seen these. I'm one of the guys that writes the software that runs on them, though I came pretty late in the game and have written comparatively little. It's one of those neat things about tax payer money and unexpected benefits. They ended-up being used at at least two universities, a stand alone experiment, two other US labs, a medical facility, even a lab as far away as Germany!
          <img src="http://www-inteng.fnal.gov/Integrated_Eng/images/IRM.gif"&gt;

  • Feds_II

    I love listening to you academics prattle on. It makes me feel like my job (keeping your lights on, your buildings warm, and your critical scientific equipment, which you were to cheap to provide with a UPS FORGOT to include funding for a UPS in the grant proposal stays online continuously for the entire 36 years of your experiment) is worth continuing to do.

  • pj134

    What I got out of this is that we need a topographical map of the Sun, at least to start.

  • texlenin

    For instance: Childrey's last words. I might or might not have repeated them if I'd been asked to. They were: " All right, show
    me! Show it to me or admit it isn't there!"
    "The Hole Man" Larry Niven, 1974

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